Live breeding web chat with Lynne Crowden

Goodbye everyone…thank you for your interest. We can breed truly amazing horses in the UK. Good luck.

If you would like to find out more about the Woodlander Stud please visit the website at http://www.woodlanderstud.com. If you would like to contact Lynne please use the contact form on the website.

A huge thank you to Lynne for being so generous with her time and knowledge today. I’ve certainly learnt a lot! We hope you’ve all found it useful.

Oh Dawn,

His jumping is life threatening for all concerned, although he can jump out of the stallion pen and arena. His mother jumped well and Weltmeyer jumped well but he missed that hand out!

OK, Lauren W,

I like Devils Jump and always saw very good top lines and big movement for a thoroughbred. I would pick a stallion with long legs, and scope…and a bit of blood or trakehner in the pedigree.

Hi Lauren W
Do you mean Futurity? There is no foal grading per se, but they do all go for branding. We cannot take all to the Futurity as we have too many but we take all that are possible, and of course the best. Sometimes they thwart us by having accidents so some of the best can end up staying at home

Hi Lauren,

What is the dam line of your lovely Devils Jump?

Good question, Carol,

For us it is imperative! People need to see the stallions that they are thinking of using and the stallions, unlike many of their foreign equivalents, do compete. Rockstar is Grand Prix, Wavavoom is AM (and was at 6 in Germany) Del Amitri has lacked a rider but will go out again this year (God willing ) at AM; Supertramp qualified last year for all Young horse Championships and will do the same this year and is working AM. They will all go that way..even the pony.

How important is it to you for stallions to have successful competition records?

Well, Carol,

I think we are a micro climate. We still are struggling with the quality and provenance of some of our mares, as is the case in Germany and Holland even when there are ten generations of selective breeding. We will only be on a par when we breed more as we will then have more good horses, as they do. They breed just as averagely as some of our breeders and do quite a good job in selling those average mares to us here!

Lynne, so do you think that British breeding is now on a par with sport horse breeding in Europe? Or do we still have a way to go?

Hi Sarah
I think the situation is vastly improved…actually thanks to passport legislation. Once people had to have passports the content of the pages became more of a focus. Pedigrees (proven ones) became a subject for discussion, and we were on our way. We still have a problem that we still lack an “industry” for warmbloods that we have for thoroughbreds and with that some individuals who would wish to “dumb down” what is required as they are not really in business in a serious way. And by “business” I don’t mean huge profits but rather proper investment and good quality processes.

Hi Dawn

Chose the one you fall in love with! We are riding Voom’s children and they are easy. We will know in two years re Supertramp. He also breeds bigger I think.

What a great idea! She is an absolute gold mine of information…

Hi Mel,

This is a present horror for us. For years we just wormed every six weeks from birth and rarely for tape. Ten years ago we started worm counting but still wormed as well. Stabled horses were largely not requiring worming with worm counting every eight to ten weeks. Now all bets are off. We are finding much greater resistance and in groups of horses kept in the same place and with the same regime, a worm count will show a variation of 200 to 5000 if you can believe that. Advice from highly knowledgeable vets is contradictory. We worm foals from six weeks and then every six weeks with Ivomectin and then when yearlings we move to Equest Pramox. The mares are wormed with Equest Pramox on the day they foal and then are worm counted and target wormed and receive a five day Panacur once they are stabled in November. It is the best we can do but I want it better

Hi Susan
Some foals are special in the first 24 hours. Farouche was not as she was very big but within three or four weeks she was fabulous. I think stalliions are to see when they are born but top sport horses may creep up on you. Is Farouche my favourite? Honestly, I love them all but adore Wavavoom and Wild Child.

If you give Saracen a call and ask them about the Woodlander mix they will be able to help.

Hello again Dawn
This is a great thread as I am an expat welsh person and lots of happy riders have welsh cobs and good thing too. I would not want to pick one or other stallion out from other places for this cross but for us both Wavavoom and Supertramp have done an outstanding job

Hi Lauren-Claire
We now have a specially developed feed for our youngstock made by Saracen. It still needs a little work for calories but it is very well supplemented and manages the confusion that people have about the difference between calories and nutrition. A “good doer” still needs vitamins, minerals and trace elements and if you read the bag of most feeds the optimum level of supplement only comes with feeding the full ration. Saracen have done loads to address this for us.

Hi Mel,
What matters to me when I go to look at a possible stud is firstly the state of the fencing and pasture as this is a health and safety issue. Then I want to see that it is not overcrowded with too many horses for the staff to manage. I also want to know how they manage the first turn out of the visiting mare…is she just chucked in the field with the others? For me. “Gold Service” is a must with plenty of care and attention. I want her to come home better than she went.

Hi Lauren
To breed a reserve champion is good going. Johnson is a good stallion and while the offspring of the cross maybe a bit heavy, they will be strong for working. What about just thinking of a son of Johnson with a litlle more blood. Or a stallion with similar lines. You are doing well.

Hello Guest with foal due in April,

I don’t turn my very young foals out in the wind and rain. By six weeks I think they need to toughen up a bit but I then bring them in to recover. Of course, more native types can cope better. I would add that I don’t leave them out all day in scorching heat and sun either. I maybe would turn them out for an hour or so, or maybe just a leg stretch in the school. I think I once lost a foal who was left out too young in the herd and became rather challenged and then gave in to a virus.

It is so difficult to answer this type of question. The vets see no problems so the question is what sort of conformation issues? You have to know that heritability is quite low on most things but highest on feet.

Hello Hannah
The native cross warmblood IS the day. They are the base of all german and dutch riding ponies. In my opinion, the mare needs to be native and the sire warmblood or small thoroughbred. For FEI, we want the ponies that are perfect small horses. Ridability is important bnut we do not need them to be first ridden types.

Hello again Dawn

I love section Ds and had one myself that actually gwe took to the regionals. I thin temperament is great but for dressage they often lack the engagement necessary and therefore, particularly the canter. So they need the very best warmblood stallions not the local heroes.

Hi Lauren
I remember Abraham as he stood in Wales. How was your reserve champion bred? Why not do something like that again?

G’day Dawn
I used welsh mares because I wanted to breed great British warmblood riding ponies and welsh mares form the basic gene pool of some of the best ponies in Europe. What I did do differently was to use Sec C mares who, in my opinion, have more body and perhaps scope. The results have given me everything ~I could have wished for.

Hello Louise
She took last year so should be no problem. Your choice of stallion, as I have replied to a previous questioner, should recognize that her type maybe old fashioned so maybe use a younger stallion. Jumpers have had to get quicker through the air. There is the thought that older mares are giving you, actually, old eggs where the DNA may not be so “sound”. I have found that most of the older mares that I breed from are just fine but throw the odd less good foal… but so do the young ones.

Hello SYO7
What a great question. “modernising” means normally longer legs and with that often lighter of bone. In the end, if you make a horse that is naturally more capable of delivering the now greater requirement for power, suppleness and expression, that greater ability puts the ball in your court as the horse requires less “training” to gain these qualities. The important thing with a big moving horse is not to run it on full power all the time. There is no need and the horse will then last.

Hi Guest

The best start for a foal begins before it is born and you can never catch up on the nutrition that was needed pre birth. We hard feel all our mares for the last trimester but they have also received supplement during the period when they did not need hard feed. We also feed the mares for approx three months post foaling which normally coincides with the first trimester of the next pregnancy.
Post foaling we now treat all foals with Bowen or EMRT with a couple of wees of foaling to deal with any tightness or crookedness that may have resulted from a big foal lying awkwardly. Farriery starts, in general, at six weeks and then evry four to six weeks afterwards although some need attention every two weeks, If a foal is not straight in the front legs in the early days we limit its exercise until the chest widens. Finaly, we also check the mares milk and the igg levels in the foals blood and give plasma if borderline.

Hello Gemma
Life is full of surprises. You may not know what happened to your mare in her early life to account for her attitude and behaviour. I do think temperament is mostly strongly influenced by the mare, probably because of her early behaviour with the foal at foot. However, our experience tells us that sometimes the most difficult mares have produced the easiest children to ride. I would however not choose a stallion with obviously the same attitude as she shows. Some stallions and lines are known to be hot and stressy. Do your homework.

The final piece is temperament. A top horse will be a bit hot but should not be a headless chicken but rather a ridable horse that wants to work and learn and has endless energy for the highest levels of work. All three ingredients must be there.

Second thing is paces. The highest level horses would not necessarily have the biggest trot but an excellent canter with a clear three beat and a good enough walk are a prerequisite. There needs to be power and suppleness and a round enough action in front to bring expression for those extra marks. Above all the paces must be engaged behind from nature.

First thing for me is conformation. You need a horse with a well set neck, well proportioned with a good back end, well let down hocks. a well angled shoulder and limbs, and in particular hind leg angles and pasterns that will support soundness.

I think when I tell someone that I think that maybe they should not breed from their mare I just explain why nicely. I would say that there has to be a clear history to say “no”. If a mare has absolutely no breeding credentials I will advise not to breed but have only ever refused a couple of mares because mostly the offspring will be an improvement on the dam and so we go in the right direction, if they insist.

Hello again Ethel,

What a coincidence. we also have a Fidermark x Rubinstein mare but rather larger than yours. Her pedigree would certainly equip her as Fidermark was I think a World Champion or at least a Bundeschampion and Rubinstein is a renowned horse for ridability. I don’t find that these lines are always the strongest especially in canter for Rubinstein blood and the most successful sons of Rubinstein have tended to come from very substantial mothers. I would look at Donnerhall sons and maybe stallions like Lord Loxley with Weltmeyer blood. For us Weltmeyer blood has been very good with this mare as has Dimaggio. Go for it.

Hello Kate,
No, probably fine. Age is not an absolute showstopper for a mare although most mares are at their breeding peak between about 6 and 13 or 14. Some times with age the uterus may have more scar tissue if the mare has drawn in air and bacteria; sometimes these mares are more sensitive to extender which makes both despatched chilled and frozen semen more difficult. Most of them are just fine and we regularly breed with mares up to the age of 20 and above, but I tend to go for a young stallion for reasons of type where an older mare bred 15 years ago will have been maybe modern in her time but may need some updating for modern sport.

Hi Ethel
Can I refer you to my reply to the first time breeder? What are you wanting to breed and for what purpose? Do you want to compete in dressage above Advanced Medium? Have you checked out the pedigree to see what has come from the dam line? Do the stallions in her pedigree have dressage “form”. Do you want the same size of horse for you to ride? Can I have more info before advice please?

Hi Millie,

It depends on your circumstances and whether the mare has had foals before with no problems in foaling or post foaling with the foal. In my opinion it is insanity to leave a mare out in the field to foal (unless perhaps a native where they are still in their naturalish form) when you have spent lots of time and money getting the pregnancy and you could lose a foal just because the bag does not break and the foal drowns. So you need to have the facility to keep her in a stable, at least for the night but you also need to be watching her in the latter stages. At Woodlander, our mares and our visitors are under camera from four weeks before due date and are watched 24/7. You need to have the time to do this and you have to have a user friendly vet on call when you lose your nerve and think something is going wrong. Most mares foal perfectly well without any help for foaling itself but the odd one does need a gentle pull with the contractions if she gets tired and we always would break the sac but not until after the shoulders are out. Simple stuff for us but can be scary for a home alone first timer.

Lots of questions coming in now. Please bear with us and we will get around to you all in turn. Please don’t repost your questions as it slows things down.

They should find out as much about their mare as they can. Firstly, they should take the mare for grading or to someone who will give them an honest opinion about the conformation, type and movement of the mare. Then, critically, do your research on both parents…what did they look like, what were their strengths, what were their conformation issues. You need to do this as however your mare looks, it is the whole genetic heritage behind with which you will be breeding so you really need to check that out and how well it fits with what you will want to do with your homebred when you come to ride it. Honestly, if things do not check out to a good quality…it is better to keep your mare in the field and not to breed with her…just love her and hug her…she will not mind.

Lets say the breeder has a mare they love and intends to keep the foal for themselves. What should they consider?

For a first time breeder the most important thing is to have a strategy for your breeding. Are you breeding to sell? breeding for you to ride? wanting to sell as a foal? or breeding just because you love the mare you have and want a job for her?

For a first-time breeder, what are the most important things they need to consider?

Hi Sarah Jane,
Your mare looks lovely and has a very convincing jumping pedigree with Voltaire and Emillion in her lines. In general, I believe for the highest levels of eventing you need to be sure that you compliment the great warmblood jumping blood with some thoroughbred. When you look at a horse in rankings, always look to see the type of mares that have produced the successful offspring.

Ricardo Z looks to be another good jumping pedigree and is high in the world rankings. So check out what he crosses well with but also go on a search for a top thoroughbred or thoroubred cross stallion. Good Luck.

Let’s kick off with a question we had posed earlier today by Sarah-Jane Brown ‏@Shoestringevent on twitter.

#asklynne I am a first-time breeder. I have decided to breed from my retired adv eventer http://shoestringeventing.c… Unsure what stallion to use, poss Ricardo Z? Mare lacks a bit of stride, maybe substance and scope for top level. Idea is for me to jump / event so temperament v important. What do you think?

Hello to everyone out there.

Welcome to our live breeding chat. I am delighted to have with me Lynne Crowden, the brainchild behind the Woodlander Stud.